Ces synthesizes and expands on a bunch of thoughts that I like to think were floating around on the page here. But she puts them into the clearest possible terms, in her remarkable way, and gets full credit for the Eureka. {g}

<Cesca> it seems to me that you're missing an opportuity to quantify a particular attraction of Spike
<Cesca> that you get near but don't quite say
* Cesca looks to see if you do say it
<annas> how so?
<Cesca> That
<Cesca> well, you verge
<Cesca> on making the "civilization and its discontents" argument
<Cesca> that spike is sexy because his desire is forcibly limited by civilizational restraints
<annas> hmmm.
<Cesca> thus making him paradigmatic of desire period
<annas> never heard that argument.
<Cesca> and that Buffy is
<Cesca> lucky enough
<Cesca> that her drive matches society's ethical need for her services
<annas> why do you call it "civilization and its discontents" ?
<Cesca> she is ultimately approved for her desires in a way that spike isn't, making spike also the paradigmatic queer figure
<Cesca> That's freud
<annas> well, yeah, but I mean...what's the relevance?
<Cesca> It's a book by freud
<annas> ooh. you're so cool.
<Cesca> because it's about the repression of civilization
<annas> I'm putting you in my blog.
* Cesca grins
<annas> you crazy academic you.
<Cesca> Enjoy
<Cesca> but you see my point?
<Cesca> Metaphorically, he works. And brooding--angel
<Cesca> I mean, this is someone who wants to transform in accord with societal values
<Cesca> the unrepentance
<Cesca> of spike
<Cesca> seems particularly symbolic of transgressive desire that is UNREPENTANT
<Cesca> and it wouldn't be the first time
<Cesca> that such would be allied with murder and death and soulessness and black holes
<Cesca> and
<Cesca> anality in fact
<annas> I love you so much I'm not even going to try and claim these are my own ideas.
<annas> <g>
<Cesca> it's pretty standard shit from dracula on up.
<Cesca> And so even though there's a gendered reading
<Cesca> there's also a repentant vs unrepentant reading that may transcend gender, particularly where women are concerned, women like us perhaps feeling coerced and wanting a space to explore resistance, even if associated with 'evil'
* annas sighs, swoons.
<annas> Be my girlfriend?
<Cesca> The real problem is that unrepentance IS still so unpleasantly coded. There's the really shitty semiotics for you. It's like what they did in Batman when homoeroticism got allied with the joker, thus making such a reading of batman and robin
<Cesca> inherently psychotic. Queerness always is.
<Cesca> Sure
<Cesca> hey
<Cesca> I'm open. <g>
...
<Cesca> please state that the conclusions are totally unbiased
<annas> As in a footnote?
<Cesca> and seriously, I don't care much. It's all in a day's work. <G>
* Cesca grins
<annas> heh.
<Cesca> It's a reading, is all
<Cesca> A theory.
...
<Cesca> freud even
<Cesca> from the intro:
<Cesca> the main theme of the book is the irremediable antagonism between the demands of instinct and the restrictions of civilization

posted 1.07.2002 @ 11:19pm -- right-click here to grab a link